Lydia Lukidis Finds Poetry in Space. ~Christy Mihaly

Welcome back to all, and best wishes for a creative and fulfilling 2025. 

Today GROG is thrilled to welcome author Lydia Lukidis to tell us about her new book, UP, UP HIGH: The Secret Poetry of Earth's Atmosphere, illustrated by Katie Rewse and published by Capstone Editions, a Capstone imprint.

Lydia has written more than 50 trade and educational books for children, including DEEP, DEEP, DOWN: The Secret Underwater Poetry of the Mariana Trench (Capstone. 2023), which you can read more about in this GROG post.

Lydia's new book explores Earth's atmosphere -- how about that for a picture book topic! Curious about where this idea came from? I asked!

GROG: What inspired you to write this book? Did you think about it when writing your earlier book about Mae Jemison? 

Lydia: It started in 2019 when I began writing DEEP, DEEP DOWN: The Secret Underwater Poetry of the Mariana Trench. Unbeknownst to me at the time, that book would turn out to be very special. It taught me that I can write about STEM topics using lyrical language. This was a turning point for me as a writer.

DEEP, DEEP DOWN won numerous awards (my first time!!) like the SCBWI Crystal Kite Award winner for the Canada and North America Division and the Silver Birch Express Honor (Forest of Reading). My agent Miranda Paul suggested I write a book UP, UP HIGH that journeys up high into our universe. I knew it was a winner.

P.S.: I had written DANCING THROUGH SPACE, my book about Mae Jemison, ten years prior so they weren’t connected. But now I clearly see I love writing about the deep sea and space!

GROG: What is your favorite line from Up, Up High?

Lydia: It's here:

The text is:

Up,
up
high
you go.

Soon the entire window
begins to glow
as an aurora
dances across the horizon.

Waves of blue,
yellow,
and green
merge together like magic,
shimmering
and shifting
in a sea of color.

GROG: Nice! And which illustration do you love the most?

Lydia: Also this one--Katie did such a terrific job illustrating the aurora lights!

GROG: It really is lovely. Okay, how about your research process? Your note thanks an expert, Dr. Zhang – did you conduct many interviews?

Lydia: This is what I’m learning with nonfiction; that primary resources and interviews with experts are sometimes essential and lend more credibility and accuracy to the work. My research starts with a few trips to the library where I consult books, periodicals, and magazines. Then I scour the web for reputable sites. From there, I’m usually able to write the first drafts. BUT- there are often holes or inaccuracies in the text. For UP, UP HIGH, I consulted three different experts:

1. Dr. Zhang who works for the NOAA. He’s a whiz who was able to answer all my weather/atmosphere questions. 

2. NASA astronaut Linda Godwin, who spent time aboard the International Space Station. How amazing is that? 

3. Alan Eustace, a computer analyst who, gasp, SPACE JUMPED! Yes, you heard that right. I'm sure you've heard of skydivers. They jump from planes at about 10,000 feet up. But Eustace took a jump in space, from 26 miles up (137,280 feet). He free fell for more than 14 minutes and traveled faster than the speed of sound. Can you imagine??

GROG: All three of these people sound like amazing sources of information and insight.

Now, tell me about the “poetry” in your title. Do you consider the whole book a single poem or did you write discrete poems about different topics or themes within the book?

Lydia: The reason I chose poetry and lyrical language for DEEP, DEEP DOWN is because the Mariana Trench itself is a poem (I watched hours of footage). The same applies to our atmosphere, it’s mysterious and poetic all at once. It’s something we take for granted yet gives us life. This book honors that. I see each spread as having its own little poem that attempts to encapsulate the magic of the element it describes.

GROG: Why do you like to combine nonfiction with poetry?

Lydia: First off, it should be said that poetry is my first love, I’ve been crafting poems since I was six years old. So, if that language works, I’ll use it! But that’s not always the case, it varies from project to project. Sometimes, the content calls for a funny tone, or a more serious one. I play around with structure and tone until it feels right.

Poems penned by young Lydia

GROG: What are your thoughts about how to write nonfiction to engage young readers?

Lydia: Children are naturally curious. If you structure a nonfiction book in an engaging way and pick a topic with kid appeal, many children will likely gravitate to it. As an author, you need to think like a child. What would a child find interesting? That way, you can find your way ‘in’ to the book. Sometimes, it doesn’t happen. I have many WIPs that end up in the garbage.

GROG: I love the way the graphics in Up, Up High note the altitude above Earth for various features. How did you formulate the format for the book, with the fact boxes and altitude notations?

Lydia: Thanks! That format was perfected in DEEP, DEEP DOWN. I wanted to be as accurate as possible and really give context to all these atmospheric elements. The information on the internet is not the most accurate so consulting with the NOAA was essential.

GROG: Would you call Up, Up High trade or educational? Or both?

Lydia: It’s definitely trade as it’s published by Capstone Editions. I had been struggling for years to make the leap from work-for-hire to trade and it wasn’t easy. The good thing is, Capstone is also very much an educational publishing company and many of their clients are schools and libraries. So it flows into both worlds.

GROG: Generally, what do you take inspiration from? Where do you look for ideas?

Lydia: I don’t need to actively look for ideas, they literally come to me every day. My issue is that I need to practice the art of discernment, this is critical. Most of the ideas are just that, ideas, and they don’t necessarily translate into a strong book with a narrative arc. When an idea has potential, I’ll start my research and develop it to make sure it has what it takes.

GROG: I'm wondering how Up, Up High is related to Deep, Deep, Down? Did you have a contract for a series? And can you share what you are planning to write next? 

Lydia Lukidis

Lydia: UP, UP HIGH is definitely a companion book to DEEP, DEEP DOWN. They follow the same structure and tone, but explore our beautiful world in opposite directions. The second book wasn’t “in the bag” with Capstone right off the bat, but my agent Miranda Paul submitted it to their editor first, as an exclusive. They said yes! It was meant to be. Will there be more books in this series? Maybe! One never knows. 

I love writing nonfiction STEM. But I also like writing funny! I have a new early graphic novel series coming out in July, "Groucho the Grouchy Groundhog," which is a nod to Garfield, slapstick humor, and Seinfeld. All things I love!

I also wrote two novels in verse on very tough topics. I’m hoping they will get picked up! One is on sub and the other is with my agent.

Lastly, I’m working on three different STEM books. One of them is flowing well and the other two, not so much! Sometimes it takes time.

GROG: That's a lot! Good luck with all of the above. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our readers?

Lydia: I wanted to tell all aspiring writers: DON’T GIVE UP! Keep writing, it takes time. It took me many years to find my footing, and I had to go through three different agents until I found my dream agent. And still, it’s hard. I get rejections all the time. But I don’t give up, and neither should you.

More about Lydia Lukidis 

Lydia Lukidis is an award-winning author of 50+ trade and educational books for children. Her titles include DANCING THROUGH SPACE: Dr. Mae Jemison Soars to New Heights (Albert Whitman, 2024) and DEEP, DEEP, DOWN: The Secret Underwater Poetry of the Mariana Trench (Capstone, 2023) which was a Crystal Kite winner, Forest of Reading Silver Birch Express Honor, and Cybils Award nominee. A science enthusiast from a young age, Lydia now incorporates her studies in science and her everlasting curiosity into her books. Another passion of hers is fostering a love for children’s literacy through the writing workshops she regularly offers in elementary schools across Quebec with the Culture in the Schools program. Lydia is represented by literary agent Miranda Paul from the Erin Murphy Literary Agency. 

Social Media Links: 

Website & preorder UP, UP HIGH: http://www.lydialukidis.com/

Blog: https://lydialukidis.wordpress.com/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/LydiaLukidis

FB: https://www.facebook.com/LydiaLukidis/

Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/lydialukidis.bsky.social

Happy Holidays from GROG

 

Thanksgiving in Vermont 2024

Very best wishes from all of us at GROG 

for a holiday season filled with joy and rejuvenation.

We'll be back on January 8, 2025

with an exciting post from Lydia Lukidis.

Meanwhile, if you missed our Nov. 27 

interview with Alex Thayer 

amid the Thanksgiving hustle and bustle ... 

it's not to late to read it (here).

See you next year!

 

Alex Thayer's debut, "Happy & Sad & Everything True" ~Christy Mihaly

Alex Thayer

Last month at the inaugural New England SCBWI Acadia Retreat, I had the great pleasure of meeting Alex Thayer. She is delightful and talented, and, if you haven't heard Alex's name yet, I predict you soon will. That's because her new novel is sure to make a splash. 

Happy & Sad & Everything True (Aladdin/Simon & Schuster, Nov. 12, 2024) involves middle grade issues of family, new friends and old ones, true friends and fake ones. The protagonist, Dee, is devastated when she and her best friend Juniper are assigned to separate classes for sixth grade, and she is lonely and increasingly confused about Juniper's odd new behavior. She's also embarrassed about her eccentric single mother and has questions about why her dad left. 

Dee starts hiding in the girls' restroom each day to avoid the dreaded "Snack & Stretch." She discovers that a grate in the wall communicates with the boy's restroom, and before long she is dispensing advice and support through the grate to students with all kinds of worries. Word of Dee's good counsel spreads and more students approach her for advice. Dee enjoys listening and helping people, but meanwhile, her attempts to make a new friend seem to result only in more embarrassment. 

Hurtful discoveries, academic failures, mysterious secret notes, and unexpected treachery all come to a head in a satisfying series of resolutions. Dee realizes her own strengths and gains pride in being herself. I devoured this book (in ARC form) straight through in a day and a half, and Dee and the other characters have taken up residence in my brain. Nicely done, Alex! This is a beautifully engaging novel. I highly recommend it. 

Below, Alex answers some questions I had about her book and her writing (and other) life. So read on!  

GROG: When you began writing, did you know you wanted to write for the middle school crew?

Alex: I love the middle school crew. It’s a time when so many things might be changing. Schools, teachers, friendships, families, bodies, ideas, beliefs… The list of possibly changing things is endless. Which makes it an interesting age to write about.

Alex and friends at the Acadia Retreat last month

GROG: Exactly! An age group that presents rich dramatic possibilities, right? And speaking of drama, your first career was acting, for TV and movies. I happen to know you have some juicy stories from those days. Does that dramatic background affect your writing?

 

Alex: Great question! Absolutely! There’s something in acting called “Method Acting” when an actor stays in character on set. Even when the camera is not rolling, the actor doesn’t break character. I think I might do this as a writer. “Method Writing,” if you will! Sometimes I’ll dress up like my character to get myself going. Sometimes I’ll bake something that my character would love to eat. Sometimes I’ll write in my journal as if my character were writing in her journal. Sometimes I’ll pretend I’m on stage and I’ll speak as if my character’s giving a monologue to the audience. I think the element of play is very important in writing. Play takes the pressure off! Acting is a great way to play around as a writer.

GROG: I love that! Method writing! It seems to have worked for you. Dee comes across as genuine and real.

I'm wondering about the delightfully original premise of Happy & Sad & Everything True. Where did you get the initial idea?

 

Alex: Thank you! I’m glad you like the premise. I wish I could say it was my great idea, but really, the premise came from my main character, Dee. I thought about Dee for a long time before I started writing this book. I knew what she looked like, her personality, what people in her life would say about her. I also knew the things she would never tell anyone. I knew Dee very well, but I felt overwhelmed about writing a whole book. So, I started small. I put Dee in a place, a bathroom, and I listened. I realized other kids come into the bathroom and speak to Dee. I knew Dee would want to help them. Voila! My premise was born.

GROG: Beautiful -- I guess this is how your "method writing" works.

I also love how in the book you gradually reveal the depth of the relationship between Dee and her mother, with Dee's impatience/annoyance/embarrassment gradually giving way to understanding and appreciation of their mutual love. Was that always a main focus of the book?

 

Alex: The mom character really surprised me. When I first started writing this book, I thought the mom was humorous and quirky. But, as the novel moved along, I realized the mom cared deeply about her daughter. I think Dee realized this, too. The arc that Dee and her mom were able to make together was very satisfying to write.

GROG: Which character in Happy & Sad is most like you?

 

Alex reading at her launch,
shortly after publication

Alex: I think all the characters have little pieces of me in them. That said, Dee is probably the most like me. Like Dee, I make lists in my head. Like Dee, I like to help people. Like Dee, I feel insecure sometimes. Like Dee, I love my cat.

GROG: Wonderful! One last question for today:

What did you do on your book’s birthday?

 

Alex: I woke up early and I wrote in my journal. (I do this every morning.) I took my kids to school. I came home and made myself a big bowl of Hot Brown Rice Cereal and topped it with milk and berries. Delightful!

Congratulations and thanks again, Alex, and very best wishes with your beautiful new book.

~Christy

Alex Thayer is a former film and television actress and elementary school teacher. She lives in New England with her two sons. Happy & Sad & Everything True is her debut novel.

Penny Klostermann writes a story that's "out of this world"

by Sue Heavenrich

 If you’ve ever wondered what celebrating Christmas on Mars might be like, Penny Parker Klostermann has a book for you! Her newest picture book, Merry Christmas, Dear Mars (Godwin Books/Henry Holt) is an “out-of-this-world” story about the night before. Christmas, that is. And it hit the shelves with plenty of time to find its way under trees on Earth and beyond…

I’ve been wanting to chat with Penny about her newest picture book ever since I learned that her first draft was an entry to Susanna Leonard Hill’s Very First Holiday Contest! Way back in 2011. That’s like … a long time ago in human years, but not so long ago in book-creating years. So I had to know more. And Penny graciously answered her phone when I called.

Me: What inspired you to come up with the idea of Christmas on Mars?

Penny: I came up with the idea while participating in PiBoIdMo – Picture Book Idea Month – back when Tara Lazar hosted that in November. It was actually my twenty-fifth idea. I jotted down “outer space night before Christmas.” And then, in December Susanna Leonard Hill challenged folks to do a rewrite of the Night Before Christmas for her holiday story contest.

Me: I remember PiBoIdMo. It eventually morphed into StoryStorm and moved to January. It’s so much easier to focus on ideas when you’re not distracted by turkeys and pies… you can find out more about StoryStorm at Tara’s blog here. Susanna Leonard Hill’s winter holiday story contest is usually announced around this time of year – check her blog here.

I confess: this is possibly my favorite spread!

Penny: I started getting serious about my writing in 2011, and that’s one reason I wanted to enter the story contest. Also, I really like writing in rhyme, so a parody of Night Before Christmas seemed like a good way to start. I began with a question: what if that night happened on Mars? I wrote a draft, but the only “hook” was that the story took place in space. And it followed the original story pretty closely. So I created some word lists to help me find creative language. My story won second place. What a boost of confidence that gave me! I thought, hey, maybe I could get this published. I sent it to five publishers in 2012 and heard back from only one. They declined.

My next submission was to the SCBWI Barbara Karlin WIP grant, where I was a runner-up. I also got involved in a critique group which really helped me in the revision process.

Me: Submitting manuscripts is a long game. Did you have an agent? 

Penny: I got an agent in 2013 – Tricia Lawrence at the Erin Murphy Literary Agency. She sent the book out on submission, and boy did we rack up rejections. But Trish always believed in it. Later, I got some feedback from an editor at a SCBWI event suggesting that I give the narrator and Santa more agency. When I revised with that in mind, it took my story to a new level. Trish sent it out again in 2019 – and then the pandemic hit. Then, in 2021 it was acquired and the editors, Laura Godwin and Courtney Nash, brought wonderful energy to this book. I think we had 55 rejections before they acquired it. It’s all about the right editor seeing your book at the right time. And believing in your story.

Me: Do you still participate in StoryStorm and story contests?

Penny: I never miss a year of StoryStorm. I love the excitement and the inspiration behind it. But contests? No, I don’t submit to them anymore, though I do donate prizes.

I really believe in the value of contests. Back when I first started writing, I would enter anything to get words on paper. With contests, you’re given inspiration (prompts/words), parameters (word limits), and a deadline. It forces you to get that first draft down. It may not be good, but the goal of having a contest entry really makes you write. I would never have written Merry Christmas, Dear Mars without the push from a contest.

Me: I love the idea of creating Word Banks, and earlier you mentioned creating word lists. Can you talk about that a bit more?

 

Penny: The word lists reflect the project I’m working on. Because Merry Christmas, Dear Mars happens in space – or at least on a different planet – I needed a “space words” bank. And the sled had technical problems, so I needed a “mechanical words” bank. Plus there are the challenges related to solving problems, so I needed a list of strong verbs. And then there’s the holiday… so obviously I had a list of Christmas-related words. I taped my wordlists to the bottom of my manuscript so I had them right in front of me while I worked!

Me: Thank you so much, Penny. What a fun book – and folks, seriously, go find a copy to read. It’s a wonderful read-aloud and the rhythm and rhyme are spot-on!

Penny has been previously featured on the GROG in this post celebrating her book, There Was an Old Dragon Who Swallowed a Knight, and in this post where she talks about rhyme and her book, A Cooked-Up Fairy Tale

She has a new book coming out in 2025 from Calkins Creek called Spider Lady: Nan Songer and Her Arachnid WWII Army, illustrated by Anne Lambelet. You can find out more about Penny and her books at her website, where you can also subscribe to her newsletter and find her social media links.

Part 2 of The Other Side of Tomorrow: WHEN YOU WANT TO GIVE UP ON YOUR STORY--DON'T by Tina Cho

 Last week I interviewed the illustrator of The Other Side of Tomorrow, Deb JJ Lee. If you missed it, you can find it here. 

Today I interview myself. Giving myself a pep-talk and walk down memory lane, letting Grog Blog readers listen in. Perhaps, you're in a frustrated state with your manuscripts and want to give up. This is for you.

Tina,

You had a great story idea, wanting to share with readers about North Korean children who escape along the Asian Underground Railroad. You did lots of research and even interviewed two North Korean boys and several adults along with a pastor who helped with escapes. Remember, back in 2012 when you thought this could be a picture book story? You put your critique group through the wringer, revising and sending it to them over a two-year span, 16 drafts, until some of them said, it should be something bigger--a chapter book. Listen to your critique partners, especially, if they are wiser than you, in this publishing business!

The DMZ between North & South Korea

                            

But you didn't know how to write a chapter book or middle grade novel. But I'm glad you didn't let that get you down. You sought help. Thankfully, a writing mentor, Nancy I. Sanders, had a self-paced class on writing chapter books & MG novels in one month. While you homeschooled your two children in Korea, you applied what you learned and transformed this picture book story into a middle grade novel. You sent it out to some beta readers and revised 4x accordingly. Then, you were bold to take a chance on sending it to a contest! The Scholastic Asia Book Award at Singapore's Asian Festival of Children's Content. What a surprise when it was shortlisted! At this time, you were teaching at an international school in Uijongbu (S.Korea) & flew to Singapore. Your novel, titled Chasing Freedom: The Asian Underground Railroad won 1st Runner Up (2nd place)! And Leonard Marcus, the American picture book historian, author, & critic, was one of the judges! Scholastic Asia wanted to publish it. But in consulting other professionals, you decided to wait.

In 2016, you signed with an agent. Adria Goetz revised the novel with you, sent it out, and it received 11 rejections. You were wondering if it'd ever be published in the U.S. Listen to the editorial rejection comments. They might give clues how to fix the story. In July 2018, based on an editor's comments, Adria asked you to rewrite it as a novel-in-verse. But once again, you didn't know how to write a novel-in-verse. You were proactive and learned. You didn't let being overseas and not having access to an English library distress you. You took advantage of SCBWI novel-in-verse webinars. When you visited family in the states in summer, you read as many verse novels as you could. And you rewrote. Again. and Again. Adria even asked you to change the title (since there was another book by the former title). So you worked on The Tune Without Words until March 2019 when you hit a brick wall. Or maybe that brick wall should be the Korean mountains. Whatever it was, you got stuck. Afraid. Self-doubt. Who were you to be writing IN VERSE? You weren't even a poet. And you quit. There was silence between you and your agent. You quit revising. Adria heard nothing. And 5000 miles between Seoul and Seattle, she felt something was amiss. So she CALLED you! 

Tina with her agent, Adria Goetz

You remember sitting on your bed, listening to her pep talk, her encouraging words. And you picked your pen back up and got to work. Everyone needs an encouraging agent! You did 5 revisions as a novel-in-verse. And then...

Five months later you received the contract. More rounds of revisions with your editor. The book was to publish in 2022.

On June 19, 2019, an email arrived from editor Carolina Oritz of Harper Alley, Harper Collins new graphic novel imprint. Would you be interested in turning this into a graphic novel? You were amazed and flabbergasted. You had never read a graphic novel before. Would you be up to it? Carolina had the perfect illustrator, a Korean American, living in CA at the time who drew comics. You were flexible. You considered something outside your comfort zone. You went to the library and checked out Hidden: A Child's Story of the Holocaust. It was lovely! And beautiful! Nothing like comics from the Sunday newspapers you read growing up. After seeing a sample sketch of one of your novel-in-verse poems, you fell in love. 

However, illustrating a graphic novel takes a LONG, LONG time. More time was needed. More revisions. How about another title change? So the third and final title is The Other Side of Tomorrow. To publish November 12, 2024, about 12 years from the date you first interviewed those two North Korean boys. 

What did you learn? Never give up on your manuscript. You might need to find the right format in telling your story. Listen to your critique partners, agent, editor. Be open to change. Be flexible. When you don't know, find out. Take classes. Go to the library and study books. 

Because in the end, you now have a shiny work of art that has garnered 4 starred reviews (Kirkus, SLJ, PW, Booklist) is a Junior Library Guild Gold Standard Selection, with a French edition coming in March 2025, and many other great things that are still secret...

*Starred review from Kirkus: Told from their alternating perspectives in welcoming, conversational verse, Yunho’s and Myunghee’s suspenseful, harrowing journeys provide readers with a realistic and devastating portrayal of life under one of the most oppressive regimes in the world.

​*Starred review from ALA Booklist: Yes, Cho’s graphic novel in verse is an extraordinary dual-voiced narrative, but what makes this title unforgettable is phenomenal, Ignatz-winning artist Lee’s (In Limbo, 2023) breathtaking artwork...masterpiece.

*Starred review from School Library Journal: Cho’s vibrant, elegant writing style beautifully captures the pain, fear, courage, and resilience of the characters featured in this text. Lee’s illustrations greatly enhance the text’s mood and capture both the courageous adventure of a lifetime and the spirit of a community willing to risk their lives to give those seeking freedom a fighting chance.VERDICT This gut-wrenching story of hope and resilience needs to find its way to all readers’ hands.

*Starred review from Publisher's Weekly: This gripping graphic novel by Cho (God’s Little Astronomer) and Lee (In Limbo) about childhood under dictator Kim Jong Un balances horror and wonder in both its poetic language and vibrant imagery. Lee’s dynamic Procreate illustrations emphasize light and shadow to brilliantly illuminate the tweens’ harrowing situations in this intimate, cohesive collaboration.

Please read The Other Side of Tomorrow, leave a review, and request it at your library. For more information about the story, read this post on Harper Stacks which I wrote! And check out the Educator's Guide I wrote. Thank you! 

How did I celebrate the book birthday? At school til 8pm for parent teacher conferences! Thank you, everyone, for cheering this book on!

Tina Cho is the author of Rice from Heaven: The Secret Mission to Feed North Koreans (Little Bee Books), Korean Celebrations (Tuttle), My Breakfast with Jesus: Worshipping God around the World (Harvest House), The Ocean Calls: A Haenyeo Mermaid Story (Kokila/Penguin Random House), God’s Little Astronomer (Waterbrook), God’s Little Oceanographer June 2025, & The Princess & the Grain of Rice (FSG Fall 2025). Her lyrical middle grade graphic novel, The Other Side of Tomorrow, published from Harper Alley 11/12/2024. After living in South Korea for ten years, Tina, her husband, and two kids reside in Iowa where Tina also teaches kindergarten.